brunswbalk:  ; 11

Since the schematic comes from the Radio College of Canada shouldn't this set be listed with the Canadian manufacturers if we want to keep RMorg accurate?

I've attached a label from a gentleman's eBay auctioned radio that also states it was made in Canada.

Regards,

Robin

• Canadian Brunswick model 11 label (35 KB)

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It is not that easy:

- The model 11 is listed in Radio Collector`sGuide 1921-1932, made by Brunswick in Chicago. 
- As well in Rider's Perpetual vol.2.
- and in Bunis/Slusser
 
If the Canadian branch had produced it, it was nevertheles a US model, as far as I can see..... 
I think the "model's home country" should govern, not the production or distribution place.

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Greetings, Kobi!

It's good to hear from you.

If I understand correctly you mean that if a particular model is made in both Canada and the United States then the company's country of origin prevails.

On the other hand, if a model is only produced in Canada but the company country of origin is the United States it should be listed as a Canadian model, correct?  Some examples would be Philco, Motorola, GE, etc.

Best Regards,

Robin Roeckers

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Dear Robin and Konrad
I think we have first to think about all pro's and contra's:

Since we want to be a reference work, in case of USA and Canada we have to see the fact that often solely Canada made products are sometimes referenced as US products - and vice versa. We have in fact three cases for companies which had manufacturing plants in the USA and Canada:

1
Canada manufactured, not exported to the USA. There might still be some thoughts in the USA that the set has been made in the USA if the set or literature does not tell the origin - but here I think we can just list it for Canada and don't have to bother. If it is listed too in the USA - we just add the note in big red with ... span class="enbig" ... We should not delete because there was a reason why it was placed for the USA ...

2
Made in both countries. Here I think it is a must to list it in both countries and to add something about that in the notes.

3
US manufactured and exported into other countries including South America. For most import countries it is clear that it is US made - except there was a plant in that country too.
Specially in the case of Canada with such strong relations we have to be careful how to decide for this.

If there were many exports, only few collectors will be able to tell where this was made.
If a member does create a Canadian model for that we should let him/her - but we should enter a red big note that in fact this has been made in the USA - and naturally have the set created for the USA too. Most often model admins will not even know and we will not be able to stop such doing in the long range. We will be able to put in the note if we see something we know. We should not try to bring in such models for Canada too - only in cases where members believe it was made in Canada - to be able to inform correctly and as a reference, not a catalog!

If you think it should be done otherwise, please tell here your reasons. I might well have not included some important arguments against this "rule". Thank you. After that I will reflect again.

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This information on the subject was found in "Radios of Canada" by Lloyd Swackhammer:

"The Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company Ltd.

Changed to Brunswick Radio of Canada Ltd. in 1931. Hanna Avenue, Toronto, Ontario

This was a US company, who made their first radio in Canada, the Model R1 in 1927, and were entirely made here by 1932.

In 1931 they stated they were a 'Subsidiary of Warner Brothers (Pictures) Inc.'. Their only Distributor at the time was the Stewart Warner Alemite Corporation Limited, Belleville, Ontario, who were, oddly enough, also a manufacturer.

They made 6 models during the 2 model years, 1930-31 and 1931-32, then folded up in Canada due to the deepening depression."

Pictured in "Radios of Canada" is an advertisement for Model 11, price listed is $ 89.00. (No information if this is in Canadian or US currency).

Further to Mr. Birkner's remarks on the true origin of North American made radios, this excerpt from Swackhammer's 'Introduction' to his book:

"A question that collectors often ask, 'is this particular radio a Canadian radio?'. The answer is not always an easy one. The author wrestled with this question and where there was any doubt, decided to express an opinion, provide all information found, and leave it to the readers to decide for themselves. The most difficulty occured in determining the heritage of radios that came into Canada from the USA. Were they US radios that were simply imported, were they partially constructed then brought to Canada to be completed, a legal way to obtain a lower tariff cost, or were they radios that were properly licenced to be made in Canada by both Canadian companies and branch plants of companies outside Canada?" 

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Found in "Blast of the Past", p.63, for 1931 new products :

Brunswick 11, $ 79.50, Superhet, 3-24, 2-var-mu, pent., 80.

That is exactly our candidate again.

 Not with our model here, but for other Brunswick models You find in Radio College of Canada
"Printed in Canada,  Courtesy of Brunswick-Balke-Collender Co.Ltd.", while the drawing title bears the inscription "The Brunswick-Balke-Collender Co., Chicago, Illinois" sometimes added "Technical Department".

That means, that the presence in RCC does not always mean a Canadian origin. So much to the argument RCC.

Conclusion:
Since Model 11 apparently was manufactured and sold in both countries, the 2nd rule (in post 4) shall apply: Separate models with cross referring notes (There is also a similar Model 11 made in ...., see there). Notes preferrably in red color to get attention.

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This may not relate directly to the issue at hand, but it definitely fits into a discussion of radios with questionable origin.

As a "throw-in" to a tube deal - quite a story in itself - I picked up a RCA "ruin" which was originally marketed as RCA, Model 67 QR 77.

The label on the bottom states "...Made in Western Germany..."

What's left of the sticker at the back of the chassis indicates a Canadian connection: RCA Victor Company Ltd., Montreal, Canada

Into what category fits this set?

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Dear Alfred
You present a very interesting example.
I entered this company some time ago as Radio Fernseh Elektro GmbH (Western Germany) which was or is an organization RCA was owning or leading for searching production facilities in Germany for some models. We don't know yet which different manufacturers (like Graetz) did produce such RCA models. The first model we found was 67QR77M (not yours). We had no data, I think the model is still "missing". But the 67QR52 has been uploaded.

The texts on the "back wall" is in English, French and Spanish which proves that the model was made for different markets - except the market of origin, Germany.

Unfortunately the model 67QR52 has only been uploaded to the German Company which has wether manufactured the models nor sold them in a market but were just mediators ...

Correctly done it can be there where it is plus in the destination market - at least for RCA USA but maybe also in other markets if there is a clear indication for that market. I did now copy that ID = 116619 for RCA USA, not knowing the other markets for this model.

Please create your model for RCA USA and maybe also Canada and enter some remarks as I did on 67QR52 for RCA USA.

Maybe you can also bring in a text in English for the German Company? There are more of these models like the 67 QR 73 FM-M but I think unless we know some more facts (the true maker of a model) we don't have to duplicate for Germany (but can do so).

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