grundig: 4040W/3D (4040 W/3 D); - Motor tuning activation

Dear colleagues,
and a special Thank you to Herr Knoll, and Thomas Günzel,  Andreas Steinmetz, Karl-Heinz Bradtmoller, and Thomas Albrecht ( for the expeditious translations). . .

I have greatly benefitted from the outstanding forum items related to the UKW tuners in the 1953 - 1955 Grundig 4040/5040/5050 series - and including the Musikschranks 7042 and 8042 versions.

However, I have been unable to identify the manner in which the "motor tuning" EIN- AUS function is performed on the model 4040W3D, compared to the 7 pre-set kontakts of the 5040W3D and the 5050W3D radios. . . . I have just finished "re-setting" MW1, MW2,  and the UKW preset "stops" on my 5040W3D and the motor performs exactly as described in the TI article.

There is presently on ebaY USA a model 4040W3D which appears to have the 5 pre-set kontakt levers; however, there appears to be NO visible control to turn the circuitry "on" or "off".

Additionally, the schematic for the model 4040W3D, from our RMorg database depicts the tuning motor with circuitry only for the windings to operate the motor in either direction.

From my translation of the Grundig 2/54 TI several years ago, I understood there were some models produced without the "ON-OFF" switch. There is discussion in the Technische Informationen to identify this "improvement".

I would appreciate a brief discussion of this item - when Herr Knoll has a few moments or if some other member has a functioning model 4040W3D.

I express my greatest appreciation to all members who have contributed to these topics; and to those gentlemen who have discussed the decorative trim on my 5040W3D.

NOTE: I did not see the model 4040W3D discussed in the Questions answered - but I feel certain the issues related more to the FM tuners circuitry rather than the motor tuning functions and service.
I realize the 4040W3D uses the EBF80 and EABC80 instead of the EAA91 and EF804 tubes

Respectfully,
Robert Sarbell

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Hello Robert old friend.

The Motor -Technic comes later,  and i give you my word, the Problem with "yes and no Automatic- Switch on/ off"  is also in our Programm.

The Dialoges of RF and IF can also use on Set 4040, the only change ist what you say, the EABC80 to EF804 and EAA91. That makes no big difference.

Regards  Hans

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Greetings Hans,

The motor tuning is most enjoyable after I learned the correct procedures.

I shall look forward to your following programs.

The premium left and right contacts on the levers were apparently not damaged - and have been cleaned up well.

Respectfully,
Robert

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Hello Robert, and Mr. Daly

I repeat:

4040 W 3D have 5 Memos     ( 2X  FM, LW, MW1, MW2 ) , SW is without Memo.

 

5040 W 3D and 5050 W 3D have 7 Memos (2 X FM, LW, MW1, MW2, SW1, SW2) SW 3 allways without Memo.

All Models has from the beginn, no Lever: automatic on/off

see here this picture from Mr. D. Daly the new Version with Lever

4040ein_aus

 and also this picture from a earlyer   model:

After Start of production, all sets beeing changed an have this Lever behind Tunningknob.

regards Hans

 Hello i am Sorry,    Mr.  Daly  shows  the right way !   May be,  i get old?  ! Hans 

Attachments:

• 4040W 3D first model (30 KB)

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Greetings Hans,

I understand now clearly the paragraphs in the Grundig 2/54 Technische Informationen. . . that model 4040W3D on ebaY then had the normal configuration and was an early model.

I may have difficult time to replace one of the feather springs - on MW2 memory paddle. . . . it has a portion of the spring which indicates it may have been "stretched" too far some years ago.

I have placed it on the LW band. . . . . .we have essentially no transmitters on those frequencies.

Respectfully,
Robert

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Greetings to all.

 I am currently refurbishing a model Grundig 4040W 3D, second series (Thank you for this info regarding the two series or variants, Herr Knoll!)
 
 The "Ein-Aus" tuning control lever is located behind the manual tuning knob and rotates a connecting outer shaft placed over the main tuning shaft. A second lever is attached at the rear of this outer shaft, behind the  dial scale glass.
To this rear (second) lever is then attached a string that travels upward,  then angled through a mounted bushing, then into the length of the underside of the clear plastic brace mounted on the top of the rotary contact assembly.
 When the lever is moved to  the marked "Ein" (auto On) position, the string tension relaxes, allowing each movable contact lever or "finger" to rest upon the respective contact disk when the corresponding  band pushbutton is depressed. This permits action from the auto pre-select drive motor.
 When the lever is moved to the marked "Aus" (auto Off or manual) position, the string is placed under some tension, preventing any contact "fingers" to rest upon any contact disks, therefore restricting any automatic pre-select tuning.
 The very clever auto clutch mechanism is only engaged when the auto drive motor is activated in either direction.
 A tapered drive pinion, together with the forward axial (thrust) movement of the motor's armature upon being energized form parts of the motor drive clutch mechanism.
When the motor is not  energized, the clutch is automatically disengaged from the motor for the purpose of manual tuning.

  My model 4040W3D has two UKW pre-select positions, two MW pre-select positions and one LW pre-select position. There are no KW pre-selects shown for this model.
 
 A photo of the control lever mechanism is shown in the attachment below. What is difficult to see in the very top of the photo is the "hairpin" spring located between the bushing and contact housing that serves to maintain a small amount of string tension to prevent any excessive looseness (slack) of the control string when the lever is in the "Ein" (auto on) position..

 Kind Regards,
  Dennis Daly

 

 

 
  Attachments:

• 4040W3D Auto On/ Off Lever (30 KB)

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Hello Robert,

i spend you a picture. Post 4

regards Hans

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Hello Hans and Dennis,

I thank you so much, Hans for the clarification of the early model 4040W3D motor activation discussion and photos.

I also agree totally with Dennis regarding the control lever mechanism. . . . .it is exactly the same  mechanical configuration with my model 5040W3D  -  I do appreciate the  extra  2 pre-sets on th KW1 and KW2 bands. However, there are fewer excellent "World News" broadcasts to capture.

Dennis has  become very familiar with the Instructions written by Herr Knoll many years ago  in the  2/54 TI article. 

I would be very interested to know if ANY member has had to replace one or more of the feather  springs that I referred to above.  I am hesitant to even place them briefly into a "rust film remover" - I suppose the tension may not be significantly affected with a light oxide coating on the coil springs.

Respectfully,
Robert
PS: More than 2 years ago Hans offered an excellent tip for cleaning the surfaces of the "left" and "right" motor direction contact surfaces - the original NEVER DULL wadding polish . 

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Hello Robert and Others,

 It is nice to hear my own observations and understanding of the basic mechanical operating  principles for the Grundig pre-select feature closely match Herr Knoll's published article, the Tech. Info von 2/54.
 I have managed to review and interpret for myself only a very small portion of this published document.
So far, most of my basic understanding of this  interesting Grundig feature has been derived from a physical study of the example here.

 Much  fun and some nice mechanical challenges were associated with repairing my example model back to proper performance.
 Part of the fun was the refurbishment of the rubber tire for the driven wheel, and the correction of the excessive runout (warpage) of this wheel as I had found it.
The wheel's runout variation was reduced to a quite acceptable .004" (.1016mm) limit, as shown in the attached photo.
Lucky for me that this cast wheel had tolerated so well the firmness necessary for my corrective actions!
 I was a bit nervous with having to apply so much side-to-side bending force, but this had to be accomplished to further "true" the wheel so that proper adjustments for clearances among the various drive and clutch components was possible.  The fabrication of new rubber mounting grommets was also another bit of fun...
 
 For myself,  the most impressive feature of this grundig model is the powerful audio output provided by the single type EL12 tube, along with the use of dual audio output transformers.


 Kind Regards,
  Dennis Daly

 
  Attachments:

• Correct Motor Drive Wheel Runout (62 KB)

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Hello Dennis and also to Hans,

The following comments are primarily directed to "confirm" that Hans IS CORRECT in his thinking that SOME of the earliest models of the 4040W3D did, in fact, leave the production lines without the motor activation EIN-AUS lever installed - nor was there any string with the  small hairspring attached to the assembly (for tensioning ) included.

The recent model advertised on ebaY USA, from my photo interpretation and personal discussions  with the seller, attest to this  statement.

As a matter of fact, the radio was only relatively recently brought in to the USA . . . .coming from Germany by a gentleman who has been personally importing a few high end vintage German radios.

Respectfully,
Robert
NOTE: I am presently awaiting some final close-in photos to positively confirm this posting.
 

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Hello Robert and Hans.

 I also fully agree and have no doubt that Herr Knoll's statement is correct in that the earlier iterations of these models contained no control lever.
 
  I  have a curiousity for how any deactivation of the auto pre-select feature in these earlier models may have been accomplished.
 What was  to enable the operator tune the radio manually, without any interference from the auto drive mechanism?
 I am hoping Herr Knoll may have some idea about this?

 With Kind Regards,
   Dennis Daly

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Hello Mr Daly.

your  question:
( What was to enable the operator tune the radio manually, without any interference from the auto drive mechanism?
I am hoping Herr Knoll may have some idea about this )

my answer:

 
Yes, you have recognized that problem. I invite you,  take a look to the postings no. 2   in this thread to take into account.  And later here:

 

grundig_grundig_schematic_diagram_analysis

grundig_5040w3d_circuitry_analysis_part_2

  Its like a movie, the happy end comes at end

regards Hans

 

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Thank you Hans, for pointing out the intention to discuss this question in the future.
 I apologize for not having noticed (remembered) and taken into consideration this message of post nr. 2 before posing my own curiousity about the earlier model variant.

  I have followed the "circuit analysis" threads with great interest and I also thank you (and others) for the  added education. I hope to continue to gain a much better understanding because of your generous sharing of your knowledge.

 With Respect,
  Dennis Daly

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