nordmende: 0/614; Phono-Super

Hello

My first Germand radio RE-CAP.

Requesting guidence in recaping and replacing the Rectifier in this Radio

I think some have been replaced , I would submit photo's to help in ID of what should be replaced.

Please correct any errors I may be making as I am new to the forum and invite your comments to improve my input

Bildbreite verkleinert.

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Hi Bob,

To get the  proper answers and contributions from other members for your project, I urge you to read this thread,  grundig: 7063WF/3D; Musikschrank 

Always start with the power supply, the selenium rectifier and electrolytic capacitors.

This is to see if your power transformer works, as well as to save your radio from defective capacitors and/or rectifier.

Afterwards, replace the electrolytic capacitor and possibly the resistor to the power tube (s).

These are safety measrures for you and your radio.

Now, start your project, please post ALL pictures, upload any schematics and guides, and keep us informed of what you are doing.

There are some members here, that INSIST on not changing all capacitors, others, like myself, that like doing shotgun replacements.  The reason why most restorers in North America shotgun replace capacitors, is because of where these radios were stored in the last fifty years, temperature fluctuating attics and humid basements (both places of storage that are detrimental to paper capacitors).

In Europe, NOBODY places grandmothers radio out of the livingroom (even if it does not work), that is probably why restorers there, have better luck with systematically replacing just bad componants.

Good luck with your project.

Omer

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Bob,

in addition to the items that Omer suggested, you should check the power stage grid coupling capacitor, C143. This capacitor can be leaky, driving positive the grid (pin 2) of the output amplifier. In this case the sound is considerably distorted and the EL84 life can be shortened to few hours, due to the huge current flowing.

A simple resistance measurement with a multimeter is ineffective. Once properly serviced the power supply section, you can check the leakage in C143 simply measuring the DC voltage between pin 2 and the chassis ground: it must be zero. Any positive value indicates a leaky coupling capacitor. Also check the cathode voltage of the EL84, pin 3, for a value around 6.2 - 6.8 volts.

Emilio

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Thank you very much Omer and Emillio, your input to my request for help is VERY useful.

Omer , I did go and read the post on the 7063WF/3D.  I found it to be too strict as to what everyone should do in their trouble shooting methods.

Each Radio or project presents itself very differently. I do agre with good a trouble shooting practice, in this case making sure the Power Transformer and Speaker Output transformers are in useable condition. Parts such as these are hard to find, and I would not carry on a restoration with those parts bad.

I have found each person creates his or her own style of restorations on these old radios. Good Basic electronic trouble shooting practice is at the root of all repairs.

In my case I like to insure the major components are useable, Transformers coils and such.

Being trained in the American style, I check the Filter capacitors for Value and leakage. I have the belief that any filter capacitor 60 70 years old has served its usefull life. I re-stuff all Filter and paper capacitors on my keeper radios.

This Normende seems to have had ALL the paper capacitors replaced at some time. A neat job was done , but a lot of tack inplace method was used. I like to remove the original and replace in same position as it was soldered in.

I brought this radio up on my variac. I brought it up over 2 days , to let the Electro's reform.

The radio played with noise created by the switch keyboard.

The 100/50 MFD capacitors check good and leakage was acceptable at 300VDC. I left it in place for the next owner and installed 2 new filters unde the chassis. I also restuffed the rectifier with a new bridge and 47 ohm 5W resistor to bring my Voltage within schematic specs.

I have cleaned all switches and the whole chassis of all its crud.

The FM tuner antenna inputs were broken off flush at the rear of the tuner. I was able to repair both terminals.

At present the radio is playing well, but in need of an alignment. The eye does not close enough on a strong AM station, but over responds on a strong FM station. I have the alignmet instructions, but they are in pdf and GERMAN . I have not figured a way to translate what I have yet.

I spent 4 hours cleaning the cabinet and plastic parts yesterday. I am very pleased with the outcome.

I do not hear or see any problem with the radio other than the Alignment required.

The Phono must now be looked at and modifacation made to insure correct speed on our 60 Hz here in the U.S.

I know I have NOT followed the same trouble shooting procedeures as some advise and are strick in applying.  I have been into the Hobby of American Radios for 54 years now and at age 72 do not hink I will change MY methods of trouble shooting and restoration.

I am not good at explaining in STEP by STEP ways my method of working on these.

I MUST admit I have never worked on any German Radios, and they are a challenging task. This is my first attempt , because I really like this radio and plan on making it a main player in my Living Room.

I am very new to this forum and hopeful in the very near future I can upload some of my American Radio Restorations I have done. Learning the correct way to send photo's and schematics will have to be studied first. AND the rules of the site learned. I am sure I will make many mistakes, please bare with me and do not judge me too harshley. At my time of life new things are a real hard thing to absorb.

Thank you to ALL

Bob Timms Wilmington, NC U.S.A.

 

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Every so often you can get lucky and find the US version (marked as Export) and use that alignment.  If not I have found alignments by comparing similar chassis with in the maker.  The FM tuning sections are often similar for years in a row.  The IF stages are similar too.  The discriminator would be a critical alignment.

Paul

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Hello Paul

Thank you very much for your offered assistance in alignment of my Nordmende.I have started to translate a word at a time. I have found Abgleichvorschrift translates to BALANCE

This will be a slow process until I find a better way to translate. But it is fun and a learning expeience.

I WILL NOT attempt the alignment until I am confortable with the procedure. I have the equipment needed, now I need the procedure for each alignment.

Thank you

Bob Timms

Wilmington, NC U.S.A.

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Here is the link for service info for the export version of the 0/614 chassis. See notes on the page regarding any differences of band coverage. _turandot_u_148

Regards,

D. Daly

 

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...'I have found Abgleichvorschrift translates to BALANCE'...

...Careful.  This is one of those big compound words that German is 'notorious' for (I seem to recall something about Mark Twain having some fun with the German language, including its tendency to string words together into long compounds), and taking it apart and dealing with its separate parts is the best approach for translating it.  (I learned that some 40 years ago when I studied German.)  I also use Google Translate, but usually only for individual words.  'Abgleich' means 'alignment'; Google Translate offers seven translations for 'Vorschrift', of which 'instructions' is the most appropriate one here.  So 'Abgleichvorschrift' actually means 'Alignment instructions'.  

...I have saved copies of the alignment instructions, and will try to help with translation if you need it...

 

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Thank you Dennis and Todd for providing more useful information in my quest to align this beast.

Understanding how to translate German terms and word useage is very confusing to me.

I have attempted to use Microsft Word to Translate the German.

It makes no sense to me.The translation does not help understand the procedure or the Locations of the marked alignment adjusters.

I compared German to the American Version. The American Version says to do the AM IF (460Khz) adjust A1, A2, A3, A4 for max out.

I believe on the German Schematic this is marked on the BF V cans as Roman numerals I, II, III, IV

BUT the American version directions show A1 and A2 being where III IV are .  A3, A4 being where I II are. Very confusing to say the least

Am I correct in thinking that the I, II, III, IV adjustments are for AM band and the 3,4,5,6 marked adjustment on the same can are for the FM adjustments.

Tried comparing the German and American schematics for this Section (A1-A4) No help for me.

I am  thinking at this point, leaning toward leaving it alone. It plays well on each band, Stations track correct and the only problem I see is the eye Tube , while very resoponsive does not react as I would expect.

On a strong AM station it does not come close to closing and on a Strong FM station it looks as if it overlaps closing fully.

Coffee Break time

Regards,

Bob T

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...the American version sounds like a Sams (marking alignment points as A1, A2, etc., was typical for those).  The German instructions say (square brackets [] are things I added):

Alignment instructions for AM

IF 460 kHz

Press the 'M' key

Turn the variable [tuning] capacitor out to the left hand stop (1650 kHz). [The tuning capacitor will be completely open.]  The volume control is turned all the way up, and the tone control set to 'bright' [treble].

The signal generator is connected to the control grid of the ECH81 through an 'artificial antenna' (200pF and 400 ohms in series).

The output meter is connected to the primary connections of the output transformer.  The IF circuits 'I' through 'IV' are adjusted to maximum [maximum reading on the output meter].  [Then] connect the 'artifical antenna' to the antenna and ground jacks and adjust the IF trap 'V' for minimum.

Medium wave [AM/BC]

Turn the variable capacitor in to the right-hand stop (515 kHz) [completely closed] and adjust the dial pointer to the end mark.  Set the dial to at 555 kHz and adjust the oscillator coil 'a' and the antenna coil 'c'.  Set the dial to 1480 kHz and adjust the oscillator trimmer 'b' and the antenna trimmer 'd'.  Repeat as many times as necessary, until no further improvement is noticed.

Long wave

Press the 'L' key

Set the dial to 210 kHz and adjust the oscillator coil 'f' and the antenna coil 'g' on the ferrite rod.

Shortwave

Press the 'K' key

Set the dial to 6.1 MHz and adjust the oscillator coil 'h' and the antenna coil 'i'.  Set the dial to 17.9 MHz and adjust the antenna trimmer 'k'.  Repeat as many times as necessary, until no further improvement is noticed.

Alignment instructions for FM-RF

1.  Connect the signal generator to the antenna input and set the oscillator range.  With variable capacitor turned in, 86.7 MHz, set point 'D' for maximum.  With variable capacitor turned out, 100.5 MHz, set point 'C' for maximum.  This alignment must be repeated as many times as necessary until the end settings of the variable capacitors correspond to the above frequencies.

2. Mixer stage alignment

88 MHz: point 'G' for maximum

98 MHz: point 'F' for maximum

Set the tuner assembly to each [above] frequency using the variable capacitor and adjust.  The adjustments must be repeated several times, until the maximum at each frequency is reached.

3. Checking the resonant voltage over the entire range: the resonant voltage should lie between 2.0 and 4.0 volts.

4. Point 'H' is used to neutralize capacitances inside the tube [prevent parasitic oscillation; I am not familiar with the term 'Blindrohr', which literally means 'blind tube', but I believe that is what this refers to].  This setting should not be changed.

5. The neutralization of the oscillator is set at point 'E'.  This setting is important for preventing interfering radiation from the oscillator, therefore trimmer 'E' should not be moved.

Alignment instructions for FM-IF

1.  Slide a metal sleeve, insulated on the outside (see the picture), over the ECC85 and connect the signal generator cable to this sleeve and to ground.  Connect an output meter through a transformer (4.5 ohms primary, 7000 ohms secondary) to the external speaker jack.

2.  Detune circuits '2' and '6'.

3.  Set the circuits for maximum with a frequency modulated RF voltage at 10.7 MHz.  Adjust the circuits in this order: '3', '4', '1', '5', '2', '6'.

4.  Fine-tune circuit '6' with an amplitude modulated RF voltage at 10.7 MHz for minimum.  While doing this, watch that the voltage across the electrolytic capacitor in the ratio detector remains at or below 2.5V.  This can be measured with a high-impedance DC voltmeter (input resistance 100k ohms or greater).

[Normal practice is to align the IF first, then the RF.  But they put the FM RF alignment instructions first...?]

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Hello Todd

I cannnot begin to Thank You enough for translating the COMPLETE Alignment instructions for my Phono-Super.  You made it look very easy. I am embarrassed to admit my Grandfather was of German origin coming to the U.S. at a young age. He amazed us with his ship building talents many done in wine bottles. I never paid attention to his native tonque, but would listen intently as he conversed with others. 

So I have two things to Thank You for in this message, 1 the most helpful translation of the instructions I needed, and jogging up memories of my German Grandfather. Thank you VERY much for taking the time to help me out as I was getting very frustrated. Comes with age I think.

I hope in time I will be able to help in some way, if someone needs help in the American Style Radio I love so much. It is odd I never took an interest in the German Radios over 54 years of working on radios.  I can remember in my younger days , filling our Bombays with Grundig Radios we purchased where ever we happened to be , the Azores, Rock of Gibralitar, Africa. We brought back all the Grundigs we could find to the U.S.A. I loved the mirror finish on them. A work of art. I recall a 30 day stay in Bangor ME at Dow AFB. (Silver Dollar Cafe) First time I landed in a plane with skis for landing gear. I hitch-hiked home to CT each weekend to see my girl.

I hope the moderators do not get upset with me, for this long post, but I truly am so Thankful of the reception I have received here on the Radiomuseum Forum. I am so happy I have finally become a member. Late in my life YES but never to late.

I will now feel confident enough to do the Alignment . I will get a fresh start in the morning.

Thank You

You have TRULY made my Day

Bob Timms

 

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As much as these threads are supposed to be all technical in nature,  this is one of the nicest threads I read on this site in the last few years!

Please try to post pictures of the radio, your work, and may be give us a step by step, with your oscilloscope, when you adjust the IFs.  Someone is bound to learn something!

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...You're very welcome.  I do not have the benefit of having German parents, grandparents, or whatever; only that of having studied German with great enthusiasm for three years in high school, a LONG time ago.  I still have a fair command of it, but nowhere near what it should be in a community such as this one.  (I found that out when I tried to translate this excellent article on capacitors, written in English by member Emilio Ciardiello, into German...apparently I had made quite a few subtle mistakes.  However, one of the editors here, Martin Bösch, came to my rescue, and I promptly replaced my translation attempt with his edited version.)

...I've been a member here for about 5 years, originally looking for schematics for a couple of my German transistor radios.  Over that time I have made a few modest contributions and participated in a few of these discussions.  I've had a profound appreciation of German radios since my early days as a TV/radio repairman in the early 1970s.  Any time one came into our repair shop, it usually ended up being 'mine', and they never intimidated me the way they seem to intimidate other American radio people (like many of our friends over at ARF...by the way, you've seen me there before; I'm the 'FM Refugee' there).  You will probably find no better resource concerning German and European radios than this one.

...by the way, I live in Brunswick, ME, about two hours' drive from Bangor and the former Dow AFB.  I have an uncle who lives in what used to be one of the officers' housing units...

(I also apologize to the moderators if I am helping to 'lead this thread astray'.)

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I am awaiting a NOS ECC85 before starting the Alignment.

It is the last of 3 tubes that were tested as below min. on my TV-7

 

Bob T. 

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I completed the Alignment and am happy with the results.

My remaining problem is full closure of the EM84 with a FM signal on a strong station. It actually overlaps slightly.  AM it reacts fine. German schematic is still tough for me to grasp.

I took voltage readings at pin 1 g of the EM84 weak signal I get .27 VDC tuned off station.

On Station I read - 1.7 VDC which fully closes the eye. Am I wrong on thinking the input to the Pin 1g should be 0 to -22 VDC.

Bob T.

 

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The EM84 tube will not act the same on FM as it does on AM.  This has been discussed on here before; I cannot recall the thread.  It has to do with the difference in AM and FM detector action, and the limiter circuit built into the FM detector.  You say that a recap, or at least a partial recap, was done at some point as all the paper capacitors appear to have been replaced.  But what about the electrolytics?  Have they been replaced?  Specifically, what about C133 (small 4µF electrolytic between EABC pins 2 and 7)?  That filters a DC voltage derived from the FM detector that provides the limiter action, and also drives the EM84 on FM.  If it has opened, noise could be riding on that voltage and overdriving the EM84.  I would suggest replacing that; a 4.7µF would probably be OK...

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I apoligize for not posting that all the electrolytics were replaced.

I also checked the 1.5M resistor and it is spot on. It is confusing chasing the circuit through the switch assemblies. I have a feeling the circuit is responding as intended when built. I will experiment with adding resistance to the input to g of EM84 when FM is selected. I would be happy if the eye did not close fully. I am very pleased with the performance of the Radio. Awaiting a new drive belt for the phono. Meanwhile I am going to recheck the alignments with the chassis mounted back in the cabinet. This has been an experience to say the least. I admire those that work on these German Radios. This being a simple chassis compared to some I have seen. I could not have completed this project without the help received here on Radiomuseum. Thank you for bearing with my ignorance of these radios.

Bob T.

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