Schaub-Lorenz ,Kongress III

 

Dear collectors

I've a Schaub-Lorenz, model Kongress III.

This is a model similar to Kongress 53 shown in RM:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_modell.cfm?model_id=6058

But, there is a visible difference. My Kongress III has one tuning indicator valve plus, not used in Kongress 53. Its reference is not visible.

Its mains power transformer is burned.

I need a schematic to repair it.

Can you help me?

Friendly regards

Mário

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mario,

I have loadet the Diagramm for the Schaub Kongress 53 .

You can see, the Transformer use 20 or 30 Volt additional to the Powerline Voltage. In 1951 was this 220 Volt, now  in Europa is the Standard 230 Volt.  Wen you are using a' Silicon Diode i.e from the TV-Type,  or 1N 4007, the needet Voltage of 260 Volt DC, will bee achieve.

You need then only a' 6,3Volt Heating Transformer.
In this case, dont forget to insert a' 15 to 22 Ohm Resistor in line to the Diode, to prevent Overloading during switching POWER "ON" .

I hoppe you agree?

Best regards from near Nuremberg Hans

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

 Hello Hans 

Thank you very much for your wise advices.

Yes. I saw your Schematic diagram. Before seeing I had not noticed that it was an auto-transformer. It is easier really, only a 230/6,3V transformer is needed, and the additional resistance, of course.

Nevertheless I have to rebuild the transformer, because I like to restore my radios keeping up the original design.

But I'll not forget to increase resistance to prevent those 10% voltage plus.

My 110V radios keep the original mains plug. They only switch on a 220/110V transformer plugged in a suiting socket.

Perhaps I have to make a 230/220V transformer for these special cases. 

What do you think about that?  

Best regards
Lisboa
Mário

PS:  Now I took the transformer out from chassis I noticed that after all it is a normal iron cored transformer, galvanic isolated.
Maybe  Kongress III is quite different from Kongress 53. Let's see what's going on next steps. 

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

 

Hello Mario,

You say: Nevertheless I have to rebuild the transformer, because I like to restore my radios keeping up the original design.

I see, you are one of the  those collectors, the bring all Units in original condition.  

All right, i am one off the technical performers. For me is important, that all Units working in original condition. Design on  in- and out -site is not so important.

My 110V radios keep the original mains plug. They only switch on a 220/110V transformer plugged in a suiting socket.  Perhaps I have to make a 230/220V transformer for these special cases. 
What do you think about that?    I recommend you, to make this in those manner.

Some Threats  her in Forum in German and English (GB),  include meanings about this  Problem.  <Tesla and UBL21 >

In my opinion, its to hard for old Radios to handle more then 10 % off the rated ( given from Factory ) Voltage!

O.K. Mario if you have additional questions, ask here!

 

Greetings   from Hans

Oh!  i see too late.

The Transformer can be for Export in a insolatet Version. Not all Countrys like  the way to have no separtion between Line and Chassis!

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

 Hello Hans

I need help again. I would  like to know the dissipation value for this 200 ohms resistor. Unfortunately I've not a table for those symbols.

Also I think that these 3x 16mF condensers are but 2 independent units - one 2x16mF unit and onother single 16mF unit-. Do you confirm?

Thank you in advance

Greetings from
Mario

  

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Dear Mario,

its the other Hans here :-)

one horizontal line in a resistor box means: 1/2 Watts
one cross ... means: 1/4 Watts
two rectangles in the corners means: 1/8 Watts
one vertical line means: 1 Watts

regarding you capacitors:

The schematics show three caps, possibly two of it are housed by just one cylinder, check the hardware and the wires.

Cheers

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mario, hello Mr.Kamann,

i agree with that was Mr. Kamann say.

To calculate der Power -Disipation of Resistors is very simple.

The Diagram shows, the Voltage across the Resistor is 9,5 Volt.

Power on a Resistor = Voltage x Voltage, divided by Ohms.

i.e.  9,5 x 9,5 / 200 = 0,45 Watt!

Greatings from Hans II

 

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

 

Hello Dear Hans Kamann. Hello Hans Knoll

I'm very happy for your fellowship. Your knowledge and will helped me very much.
My Thanks to both.

This radio had some wires opened. The rectifier diode, some resistors and condensers were absent. It was a mass.

Now I've the burned transformer restored. The Schematic sent by Mr. Knoll and your replies helped me very much to rebuild the rectifier and power supply system. Thanks to Mr. Hans and Hans.:-)

Cheers and Greetings
from
Mário

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mario,

i am glad, that all our Hints bring you to a good result.

Have a good Time here in our Community.

Regards from Franconia.

 Hans M. Knoll

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mr. Hans Knoll and Mr. Hans Kamann

Though the transformer is now repaired, the cause of heating  had to be found because this "new" transformer had the same symptoms: it increased 30º C in 30 minutes.

I had to insulate and measure the main circuits. I measured 150mA from the 500 ohms resistor to the out-put transformer. On this transformer 1st coil was measured 350ohm (in C.C.) It was OK.

Looking to 6AQ5 tube socket there was a strange contact between pin 3 and pin 2.

After repairing, the current went down to 50mA. and the transfo doesn't go now up than 40ºC.

Also I changed the circuit form Kongress 53 to adjust it to a two coils transfo. Do you agree with it or are there any technical mistakes?

Best Regards from Lusitania
Mário
                                     1st coil
                                                  Out-put            6AQ5
                                                   Transf             Pin 6

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hallo Mario,

your results to the Power -Transformer are alright!
I think 30° C  in 30 minutes to increases the Temp , maybe O.K.
Not good is the current from the 500Ohm to the Anode 6AQ5 you now that well.
Looking to 6AQ5 tube socket there was a strange contact between pin 3 and pin 2.
In consequence off this misconnection the BIAS of the 6AQ5 is shorted and the Anode current goes to dangerous Value for Transformer and Tube.

   After repairing, the current went down to 50mA. and the transformer doesn't go now up than 40ºC 

That's O.K. !

Also I changed the circuit form Kongress 53 to adjust it to a two coils transformer.   Do you agree with it or are there any technical mistakes.

You due the right thing. Well!

One information for you: take care about the Power Consumption off the 6AQ5 . This type is a' bad Version fro the early 50tis.

Schaub and Lorenz  alter there  Models from 6AQ5 to the EL41.
The 6AQ5 has a' small Bulb and tend to have  GAS and on succession  a to high Current.  

If you nor agree, please  ask me.

Regards from Hans M. Knoll

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Hans Knoll 

Here it is the finish "thing".
I wonder why the tuner indicator tube is not mentioned in the back cover label. The other 4 tubes are.
Where can I find any reference to this model?
By the way, here the temperature is too high. What is a safety temperature for a transformer like this one? It may rises 60ºC?
I apologize for so many questions.

Regards from Lissabon

Mário

 

 

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mario,

Your Question was:
By the way, here the temperature is too high. What is a safety temperature for a transformer like this one? It may rises 60ºC?

The German Safety Rules 0860 give the Ratings.

For normal Conditions ( Line -voltage= +10% over nominal [ e.g. 242Volts])   the Set must operating on a ambient Temperature  between  15 and 35 °C

The temp. can increases round  55, 70 or 85°C above the Room - temp. depends from Type of  material from insulation -Foil and Wire -insulation.

The lowest Value is 55°C + e.g. 25°C roomtemp. =
80°C absolute!
With better insulation = 110°C !
See Table VDE 0860

You can see under worst case the 60°C on your Radio is always O.K.
Your reserve is minimum 20°C.

That's what I can due for you. You agree?

wonder why the tuner indicator tube is not mentioned in the back cover label. The other 4 tubes are.
Where can I find any reference to this model?
For these Questions, I have no solutions!

Hans M. Knoll

 

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Dear Mr.Hans Knoll

I apologize not to had answered you earlier .
My answer was yes, of course. I agree with You .Now I know also ,thanks to You, the temperature was acceptable.  
Thank you very much for your expertise and so greatly interested help.

Best Regards

Mário

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.

Hello Mario,

late, but not to late!  This job is then closed,
let as go to "Schaub Goldy II P "

Today ( evening), I give you some information about this set.

Hans

 

To thank the Author because you find the post helpful or well done.