grundig: 5040W/3D (Majestic); - Functional or decorative

I wish to submit an interesting note which I have just observed while performing restoration procedures on the cabinet of my 5040W3D (Majestic) version with motor tuning. . . . . .The final nitrocellulose lacquer coatings will be applied in the next week or so.

I respectfully request some comments which may impact the final procedures during this  cabinet restoration.

Replies may be in English or German - it is immaterial to my basic question:

Would there be any adverse effects if I replaced the original decorative "brass-colored" trim (only those pieces on the left and right sides which curve around the side speakers) with the proper solid brass alloy wiring?? The original material is NOT metal on this version. I can not attest to the other versions; nor does it appear that this trim has ever been removed or replaced.

Also, on the Majestic variant, the decorative trim does not connect to either AM or FM antenna systems. And during the refinishing, the stripping chemicals were observed to remove the "brass-colored" enamel or lacquer from what appears to be a hard plastic or vinyl strip  (monofilament core). This material is nearly identical to the old "fender welting" strips applied to automobiles when body and fender panels were bolted on (MANY years ago), with the only difference being that this trim material is much smaller in diameter.

I have ordered the category 260 alloy brass wire in sizes 12 gauge (.081"), and 14 gauge (.064"). The actual width of the original trim material groove measures up to nearly .070".

The reason I ask is because I have not seen any forum discussions which relate to this specific topic; and I allude to some earlier comments regarding the interaction of the "wire trim" on some models . . .Reference post 29 to the original thread submitted by Herr Jochen Amend

I have taken many recent photographs of the cabinet and various small trim pieces; and will submit a few to reflect the "before and after" status.

It is my expectation to approach the outstanding quality of work achieved by Herr Martin Renz on his Siemens G7 dual-colored cabinet and others he has displayed. His outstanding in-depth discussion of techniques to apply new lacquer coatings to the various woods on our radio cabinets has also been of great benefit to all members.

The attached photo depicts the temporary insertion of 14 gauge solid copper decorative wire for the purpose of evaluation. 


Respectfully,
Robert Sarbell Attachments:

• Metal decorative trim (108 KB)

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Mr. Robert Sarbell,

I too have a problem with the Brass trim on a Grundig 3045.  It is missing (along with the tone control bezel) and I would like to replace it.

 What was your solution to this problem?  I realize it has been many years since you posted this question.

Thank you for your time,

Paul Pinyot.

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Hello Paul,

I will take some time tomorrow afternoon to look through the more than 200 photos I took of the restoration of my 5040W3D; and locate some of the specific ones which depicted the replacement of the factory "brass trim" which was only "brass-colored vinyl welting".

I say that because it most nearly duplicated the early "fender welting" used by the automobile industry when they joined two pieces of metal bodywork - except in the wood cabinets of the elegant radios there was a very thin slit and groove which contained the fabric trim. When I tried to clean the original material it became dissolved upon use of some cleaners [ hence I decided to use the actual metal for replacement.

I actually used the solid brass 12 gauge wire; however, it was very time consuming and involved much care to ensure the wire would remain inside the existing grooves. had to use some form of clamping, and also had difficult time to ensure the wire was accurate from a linear standpoint.

I was very pleased with the final outcome.

I will downsize several of the photos for RMO posting requirements. The photos are displayed in the very small thumbnail size so it will take quite some time to find the most appropriate pictures!

Respectfully,

Robert

 

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I am surprised (but probably should not be) by the vinyl brass/gold colored welting.  Surprised that it is not metal.  But from a manufacturing standpoint that makes good sense.  It forms easily and will keep straight if accidentally bumped or crushed. 

 I look forward to your pictures and will pick up some local samples.

 Thanks again,

 Paul

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Hello Paul,

I am attaching just afew of the 25 photos which depict the removal and replacement of the "brass" trim on the Grundig 5040WD:

The brass wire I purchased from the R J Leahy company in San Francisco, Ca. They were listed on the web site as having many different types and sizes of wire. I purchased one pound of each of the gauge sizes 12 and 14 

I have absolutely no idea who may produce the very small "vinyl welting" in the shiny brass color. I am aware that it wil be easier to work with, but I am convinced the actual metal will be more beautiful.

Respectfully,

Robert

 

Attachments:

• Brass trim 1 (106 KB)
• Brass trim 2 (109 KB)
• Brass trim 3 (71 KB)
• Brass trim 4 (103 KB)
• Brass trim 5 (94 KB)
• Brass trim 6 (100 KB)
• Brass trim 7 (105 KB)
• Brass trim 8 (104 KB)
• Brass trim 9 (99 KB)
• Brass trim 10 (103 KB)
• Brass trim 11 (104 KB)
• Brass trim 12 (106 KB)
• Brass trim 13 (107 KB)

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Robert,

Thank you for posting the pictures.  You did a fine job.  All you pictures will help me with the installation.  And the overall color of the wood and the brass looks Museum Quality to me!

I ordered some Gold, marine grade, welting.  I hope it looks good.  The seller’s pictures did not lend themselves to a good evaluation of the color match.  She did try to help with other pictures.  The cost is low comparied to my other "Experiments".  

EBay Item number: 280755249904.  I will take a picture and post it here when it arrives.

Paul

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Hello Paul,

The naugahyde or vinyl marine grade welting would probably be acceptable; however, I can assure you that the 1/2- inch width will be far greater than the existing trim materials I have seen on any tabletop radio. The true width of the material which came off my 5040W3D was more accurately .072- inches or gauge 13 which was not produced by RJ Leahy - so, I used the 12 gauge.

I also agree that the color match may not approach that of the original trim material. Good luck on your project.

Respectfully,

Robert

 

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Robert,

I am betting (hoping) the 1/2 in dimension is the sewing tab that is to be captured between two sections of stitched material.  I should be able to trim that to the depth of the wood groove.

More later.

Paul.

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Hello Paul,

It is possible; but, the typical dimension when talking about the sewn welts on my vintage Pfaff sewing machine usually refers to the "width of the welt". . . . . . . .

Respectfully,

Robert

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I'm reading this thread with interest.  I also have a 5040/W3D and ran into the same problem when refinishing.  I was able to salvage the original trim, but it is damaged in some areas on the right side.  I thought about replacing it with solid brass, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to keep it straight and not introduce wiggles in the wire.  Electrically, it should not interfer with either AM or FM reception.

So, Robert, did you have difficulties laying the new brass wire?  How did you finish the 90 degree bend at the bottom front?  Great photos.

Jim

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Hello James,

I had no problem with the corners since I actually used a fine toothed metal file and placed the two pieces in a jig to bevel the ends - just like a woodworker or picture framer does. The ends came out very nicely; and you are correct that there is no FM interference with the "wire trim".

To ensure against the wire undulations, I had the supplier RJ Leahy ship the 12 and 14 gauge wire wound loosely in 12 - 16 inch coils - that  helped to eliminate virtually any wiggles.

I also used a hard nylon roller to gently press the wire into the original groove - sanded ever so lightly. And the vintage animal hide glue Tite-Bond was excellent to hold the trim in place

Respectfully,

Robert

 

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Perhaps a "Slpine Roller" would help. We use them in the US to secure fly screen into window frames.  See this Google link for Spline rollers. 

Paul

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> "fender welting" used by the automobile industry when they joined two pieces of metal bodywork

Your memory is excellent. My brother's 1941 Plymouth has welting. That body type was redesigned early-mid 1950s.

A similar small metal-look welting was used on guitar amplifiers around 1960. A slot is cut in the wood. Stage-amps were usually cloth-covered to hide cheap sturdy wild-grain wood, this was worked into the slots. Then welting was inserted, for decoration and also to secure the end of the cloth better than just the glue. It can look very nice. Restoration material is available, though I would have to hunt for references. It may be called "cord".

I like the look of the wire. I know it can't be easy, and must tend to tarnish.

> difficult time to ensure the wire was accurate from a linear standpoint.

House-wire is sold soft and coiled. You want hard and straight. "Draw" the wire to cold-work it harder. Tie one end to a sturdy wall. Wrap the other around a sturdy stick. Pull with increasing force. The wire will "give". With #12 wire this may take all your weight, or more. (I used to draw #26 with one hand.) The length will increase significantly, more than 30% but less than double, then stop "giving". This is a good point for you to stop. (I wanted very-hard, pulled until the wire broke.) This will reduce the diameter. I guess 1.5X elongation makes 82% diameter, so start with wire about 122% of desired size. All this pulling takes out the "coil", the wire is remarkably straight.

> I am surprised (but probably should not be) by the vinyl brass/gold colored welting.

I would guess that it was "Fashionable" for furniture, jewelry-boxes, etc... for about one month in 1956. Certainly the 1/2" plastic welting was common from the forties into the 1960s (I am thinking of kitchen chairs bought in 1962). The smaller stuff may not have found much use except notably on a few "stylish" guitar and radio cabinets. 

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> small metal-look welting was used on guitar amplifiers

Antique Electronic Supply

Their website links are awkward. From the home page, left side, click-through this sequence: 

• Grill Cloth, Tolex, & Piping
• Guitar Amplifier
• Piping

There are several types and colors but only a few indicate their size.

As I recall, the piping is considerably bigger than the slot so that it will jam firmly. 

"Piping - Original Marshall, Gold, Thin"  $1.95 per FT

Gosh, at that price, house-wire is cheaper.

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Hello Paul,

I assure you that the bright brass trim on my 5040W3D will not likely tarnish - since it was very carefully "Brassoed"after the glue thoroughly dried.

Then I sprayed it with many thin coats Sherwin-Williams moisture resistant nitrocellulose lacquer; and there has been NO degradation since it has been applied.

Respectfully,

Robert

 

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I saw this product and considered it. How would this be secured to the wood groove? This piping appears to be round with out a tab.

The welting I ordered came it. And it is too round or fat. It is not 1/2 round but it is defiantly too wide to look good.

The lady at the hobby shop suggested I strip out the hard nylon inner core, remove the fluffy padding and wrap the gold colored cover back around the core. This does make it much thinner. However it still does not look good.

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